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Woelk: Rams pay big price for a little pride
Pride became awfully expensive for the Colorado State athletic department Friday afternoon.
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Less than two hours after Colorado announced that it would exercise its option to play the CU-CSU game at Folsom Field next year -- a move that surprised no one -- CSU athletic director Paul Kowalczyk responded by announcing that CSU would take the 2010 game to Fort Collins.
The decision could cost Colorado State literally millions of dollars over the next 10 years, as well as the annual chance at some national exposure.
Logic and common sense would have dictated that Kowalczyk and CSU president Larry Penley swallow a little pride and make a sound financial decision. Colorado would have been happy to extend the series for another 10 years (starting next year), with three in Boulder and seven in Denver.
Such a contract would have guaranteed Colorado State about $900,000 per year over that span.
Now, the series is all but dead after 2010, and CSU will have to settle for games that pay about half that much when the series ends — a loss of roughly $4 million over the ensuing eight years.
Kowalczyk even managed to defy logic with his statement announcing that the 2010 game would be played in Fort Collins.
“ ... we believe the series ultimately belongs in Denver,” the statement read. “However ... we believe we owe it to Colorado State University, our alumni, fans, students and the City of Fort Collins to bring the 2010 game back to Hughes Stadium.”
Um, which is it Paul? Does the game belong in Denver, or do you owe it to your school and fans to play the game in Fort Collins?
In Kowalczyk’s defense, word is that Penley is the man behind the decision. Evidently, CSU’s prez is having a hard time grasping reality, namely that the two schools are not on equal footing in this instance.
One is a BCS conference school with a 54,000-seat stadium and appears on national television 5-10 times per year.
The other plays in a mid-level conference in a 34,000-seat stadium and gets on national TV about once a season (usually the CU game).
But pride appears to have overruled sound financial decisions in Fort Collins. Prez Penley has cut off his nose to spite his face.
Truth is, CU will also lose money — a huge chunk — in 2010 because of the move to Hughes.
But over the long haul, CU will be able to fill the gap in its schedule and perhaps even increase its revenue stream.
CSU has no such hope.
Next year, CU will pay CSU $650,000 to play the game in Boulder, a fee that includes 3,000 tickets at face value. CSU can buy an additional 2,000 tickets.
The ensuing year, the deal is the same in Fort Collins: CU will get $650,000 (which includes 3,000 tickets) and the option to buy 2,000 more tickets.
The difference is stadium size. Even allowing for students, CU will be able to sell roughly 42,000 tickets next year for the CSU game.
CSU, in turn, will have about 24,000 for sale in 2010. That means instead of a $1 million payoff by playing the game at Invesco, the Rams will realize about $500,000 after expenses.
That number is just about the maximum CSU can pull in for a home game — and that’s the number CSU will settle for in the future instead of an estimated $900,000 per year.
That’s what CSU threw away on Friday in the name of pride.
For people who wonder why Colorado needs a minimum six home games, the answer is simple: if CU can’t provide luxury suite and club seat owners at least six homes games per year, CU could owe a healthy refund to those owners, possibly as much as $600,000.
Now, it appears the series will end after 2010. Colorado will fill the empty date on the schedule with a home game that will provide roughly the same revenue and move on.
CSU will also have to fill the empty dates on its schedule — but the Rams won’t be able to find anywhere close to the same financial benefit. Throw in the loss of a game against a BCS conference foe, the chance to play on national television and the opportunity to be a part of the state’s showcase event for one weekend, and the Rams lost a bundle on Friday.
A heck of price to pay for pride.
Posted by mgmtgrad on August 30, 2008 at 1:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I can’t agree more Neil. As I’ve said in earlier posts, as long as the games are on national TV I agree with the continuance of the games and the proposal of three out of ten in Boulder is a compromise that CSU should have accepted.
But that is OK because the lack of this series on National TV and in Denver will only hurt CSU both in revenue and exposure. CU had 3 of 4 non conference games on TV last year and with their strength of schedule CU should continue to attract TV exposure in their non-conference schedule. With out CU, the Rams may not see very many, if any games on national TV.
Marcus J
Posted by BuffMan6236 on August 30, 2008 at 1:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I think not playing this game hurts us to.
I'm not a fan of the lowly ewes, but its a wild atmosphere which is great for recruiting (keeping people like John Major in state).
And it kicks of the year with a great showcase. Check out the TV coverage for this game. Its on Fox and it is nationwide. We'll lose some of that marquee effect when we go back to Boulder.
Would be nice of the Buffs cycled through though with Air Force, Wyoming, CSU and (why not) BYU and UTAH.
Posted by Ralphie2 on August 30, 2008 at 6:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
CSU is inferior in ever way!
GO BUFFS!!!!!
Posted by Ralphie2 on August 30, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Classy, Rams! Classy.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/...
Posted by bufffan8 on August 30, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The game Sunday is on Fox Rocky Mountain. Do they broadcast nationally? With comcast I don't get the other regional Fox sports channels. Are they putting this game on all of the regional Fox sports channels?
Posted by CaliBuff on August 30, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I guarantee you that we won't lose out on recruits because we aren't playing teams like CSU. Recruits want to see us play teams like Cal, Georgia, LSU, UCLA, USC, Michigan. Big time schools that will bring national attention. Even though the CSU game is on FSN national TV, not that many people will watch outside of CU or CSU fans. When we play WVU on ESPN primetime, the ratings will be HUGE. That's what recruits like.
Posted by buff4life on August 30, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
watup calibuff, do you remember buffsoulja??? anyway, it's just really sad that a D1 program has to play their ONLY meaningful game and bowl game in week one. watch out for unlv this year, i didnt even know they had a football team...and the game in ft collins in 2010 should be interesting, i dont think i've seen a college game in a high school stadium before, at least if there is a tornado everyone will be safe, a frikn fallout shelter.. and watch out for those "brokeback" mountain cats lurkn up on the hill, what a great photo, lol.
Posted by ralphie9677 on August 30, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a good opportunity to fill the schedule with a team we know CU can beat. We need that kind of a game to stay competitive with the big programs that only schedule one, maybe two, nationally recognized teams prior to conference play.
Posted by bzainthemd on August 30, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes buffan8, the game is on Fox nationally, every year. Man, CSU sure blew a big one with this. Way to ruin a great instate rivalry and big pay day for them. How are they going to recruit in-state studs without playing us on TV? Where are they going to get the exposure? They just sent their program back 20 years. We will move on. It's sad, but that's what pride without intelligence does. GO BUFFS...SLAM THE RAMS!
Posted by rodrigo on August 30, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
bufffan8, don't know the full answer to your question but in NYC the game will be a Fox regional broadcast carried by the MSG (as in Madison Square Garden) network.
Posted by GoBuffs05 on August 30, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What a disappointing turn of events. I love playing this game, even if it's more beneficial to CSU. I don't mind invading Ft Fun and embarrassing them in their high school stadium, but what a stupid decision on CSU's part. I guess this is just more evidence of CSU being the second tier school in Colorado.
Posted by mgmtgrad on August 30, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes the game is nationally televised and has been even before the move to Denver. I’ve been able to watch every one of them from SoCal since I graduated in1999. So CSU is losing out on larger gate monies for the next ten years because they want to play all in the games in Denver or worst half at CSU. Seven out of ten in Denver with three at CUs stadium would have guaranteed CSU monies they could have banked on for the next decade.
Neil was correct when he stated, it was pride over money. Even the three home games at CU would have paid twice the gate revenue compared to at CSU and still received TV exposure.
As pointed out before, CSU’s stadium is only a little larger or close to the same size of those that the bigger high school programs play in.
Marcus J
Posted by RalphieWyoWyo on August 30, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I say it sucks to be a CSU fan!
I say it sucks to be a CSU fan!"
Buffs-31
Aggies-9
Posted by BuffTime on August 30, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Kenny? Is that you?
Posted by bufffan8 on August 30, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
vkb - Invesco holds 75k. 20k more than CU. WOW. What's that - like $400k.
Posted by olsdaddy777 on August 30, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This guy Neil Woelk is a huge whiner. Give me a break. The buffs are losing money too for the sake of pride. Give me a break.
Posted by SnowBuff on August 30, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
wow the dissenters in this comment section are pretty much unable to make a coherent argument. No need to argue against them cause their very lack of thought makes arguing against them analogous to trying to talking to a rock...
Posted by mgmtgrad on August 30, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
vkberlin2
$20 a ticket?
Where are you finding tickets for only $20?
And CU has sold out its luxury suites for all of its home games this year.
So, your math doesn’t add up.
And, last year's game wasn't sold out and the sponsers had a good deal of free tickets to give away. Most of those were premium seats that displaced both schools season ticket holders. One of the issues that is a problem for both schools.
I'm not saying we shouldn't play the games but if CSU can't pay the same as CU can for a home game (not even close) then why should the game go there?
Marcus J
Posted by feardaram on August 30, 2008 at 6:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
YES!!!!! FINALLY!!!!
if CU wants to be high and mighty, let them. CSU doesn't need this game so bad as to sell our souls over it. face it, CU is so terrified of CSU that you need to play us at home to have every advantage. fine. i'll make the trip next year to boulder, if i can score a ticket. the next year, some of you can make a trip up to FoCo, for our first true home game versus you since i've lived in CO.
this isn't just about pride, it's about what's right. CU cannot schedule an opponent who makes you as much money (as CSU) yet won't pound the snot out of you. go ahead and schedule USC.
i'm fine with either moving the game to denver or letting both schools have it at home. if CU decides to discontinue the series over this, that's called being scared.
we shall see if CU is truly scared of us.
Posted by NJBuff on August 30, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's go Buffs!
I assume 90% of us are CU grads - at the minimum start spelling his name correctly. Since we're all on a first name basis, it's Neill, with two l's. Not Neil. Only Rams and the moronic Talisall can't spell :)
And on this point, he's right.
23 HOURS TO GO BABY!
LET'S GO CODY AND THE OFFENSE AND WALTERS AND THE DEFENSE!
Posted by feardaram on August 30, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
can't wait for tomorrow :)
heading down to denver at 11:00 AM.
Posted by Buffalo20 on August 30, 2008 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The main point in all of this is that CU promises 6 home games to all the fat cats buying sweets and club level tickets. Period. Nobody is scared of CSU. At least not teams that travel to FSU, host WVU, and play in the Big XII. And if the Rams can't cope with reality, come to their senses and accept the 7 in Denver 3 in Boulder deal soon, those two jokers calling the shots up there will be jobless. Good luck Rammies, this will be your last sliver of hope at beating the Buffs in the Dan Hawkins era.
Posted by rodrigo on August 30, 2008 at 8:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
vk = rs = moron.
Posted by halluxvalgus on August 30, 2008 at 9:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is the problem- CU managed to schedule a national broadcast against a team that- should CU live up to their (and our) expectations, we should beat about 80% of the time. Everyone watching understands that rivalry games are generally more hard fought that other games.
Now, our options are: to schedule a foe equal to CSU, which pretty much guarantees no national TV and poor ticket sales at Folsom. Schedule a lesser foe for a guaranteed win, and 100% guarantee no national TV and terrible ticket sales at Folsom. Or, schedule a quality, BCS opponent, and hope for national TV and a home and home with good ticket sales at Folsom.
The problem lies in that CU relies on the opponent to sell tickets. Sales for last year's Miami (OH) game were horrid, and there was no TV. CSU is a good draw to the stadium, a good draw for TV, and a game where CU should be favored. That's a huge win. We already play a ridiculously tough schedule (because of the need for quality opponents at Folsom). Imagine switching CSU out for say, UCLA. Bigger draw, more national interest, probably about the same chance to beat us this year.Is there another team in the country that would play WVU/ FSU/ UCLA, and a 1-AA team that they were forced to take because of scheduling (and a great 1-AA team at that). No chance
CSU is a unique situation for the Buffs, and one of which we need to take advantage. At the same time- we need to do what's best for our bank accounts. Maybe there's a compromise to be found. Otherwise, call Air Force. Hell- call UNC if it'll sell tickets.
Posted by feardaram on August 30, 2008 at 9:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
^ that is my point. CSU fills a need, we aren't just some random team like many people make us out to be. we are by far from an awesome team, but it gives CU a chance to make good money by hosting an exciting and winnable game.
there is no reason why only CSU should have to bit the bullet on this series. why should CU get to take the game home while our home games are in denver? it's unfair. in the end, i want the series continued. i'm not sure at what cost, but i don't want it to end.
maybe 1-2 games in boulder, 1-2 games in FoCo, and the rest in denver, over the next 10 years.
Posted by halluxvalgus on August 30, 2008 at 10:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
well, I enjoy that you agree with me, and I enjoy that you are a smart fan, and not just a homer, but the larger point is this: CU needs to do what is best for CU. The corollary is that CSU needs to do what's best for CSU, of course.
It seems to me that what's best for CU is to play their home games on campus, and for CSU to play their home games at Invesco. If CU needs to give in for 1 game or 2 out of 10 to placate CSU, so be it. The big picture says that everyone will benefit.
My problem is when people start talking about the state of Colorado and the citizens of Colorado and what it means to them. Neither Boulder nor Ft. Collins is far away. Any citizen who enjoys that matchup can do so in either respective college town, and benefit those universities and the small businesses surrounding the universities. The game at Invesco has a certain cachet, to be sure, but it certainly isn't for the benefit of Coloradans.
Finally- I live in LA and am watching Oregon/ Washington currently. There was just a big promo for CU/ CSU and one of the announcers said, "Oregon and Washington might not like each other, but Colorado and Colorado State..." I is a legitimate rivalry in the minds of the nation, and it's a rivalry where we should be expected to win the grand majority of the time. That's an incredibly stupid thing to give up because of hubris.
Posted by BuffSteve on August 30, 2008 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Feardaram - thank you for posting intelligent comments on this board; you make some good points. It's refreshing to have a fan of the opponent post comments that are well thought-out.
Part of me still thinks tomorrow's game is a classic trap game but I'm hopeful that the Buffs will shake off the rust early and have a solid run game. If the O-line controls the line of scrimmage the game is ours. No different from most other games I guess. O-line is the key.
Go Buffs!
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