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Point-Counterpoint: CU-CSU: Better in Boulder or Denver?

Boulder

Josh Lindenstein

College football belongs on college campuses.

And that goes for the Colorado-Colorado State game.

Sure, more people get to watch the game at Invesco Field than at Folsom Field or that pasture with bleachers in Fort Collins.

But give me the atmosphere and camaraderie of fans tailgating all over campus before jovially convening for the game over packing into the mega parking lot at Invesco any day.

Give me the excitement and hostility and home-field advantage that the crowd at either stadium creates over a too-large stadium evenly divided any day. Give me die-hard visiting fans toughing that environment out.

The vibe at the game when it's been in Denver over recent years seems, well, aloof when compared to home games on campus. And it tends to devolve from there (Can you say tear gas?).

CU won't make enough money playing at CSU you say? Fine. Don't go to Fort Collins. Invite the Lambs down to Boulder — where you can make the same or more money as playing in Denver — every other year and bring in Wyoming or Air Force on the off-years.

But don't cheat thousands of college football fans out of the on-campus experience they get so precious few times per year.

Denver

Chris Shelton

This state's biggest college football game of the year should be played on the biggest stage.

Playing the CU-CSU game at Invesco Field makes the event an even bigger spectacle.

It also starts the college football season with a bang, as far as grabbing the attention of fans in the Denver area about CU or CSU football.

Besides, CU fans will have six more opportunities to see the Buffs in Boulder this year.

And this season's home schedule is a great package — Florida State, Miami of Ohio, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska.

The attendance figures make it difficult to overlook, too.

In the past seven games played at Invesco Field, the average attendance was 72,773.

In the past three games played in Boulder, the average attendance was 54,447.

The last time the game was at CSU in 1996, the attendance was 36,371.

Granted, the stadiums are smaller at CSU and CU, but more people in the stands means more people are into this rivalry game.

In 2003, there were 76,219 at Invesco Field for the CU-CSU game. If the schools can attract that many people to game, the game should be at Invesco.

Comments

Posted by GoBuffs05 on August 22, 2007 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My vote is for the campuses. I like the game played in Denver, but getting down there to tailgate is a pain, especially for a 10AM kickoff like this year, and obviously I prefer Folsom to Invesco. However, until Ft. Fun builds a real stadium, the game should stay in Denver.

Posted by oz_in_cali on August 22, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For the years that CSU is the home team, go ahead and play the game in Denver. But in years that CU is the home team, the game should be played at Folsom. Aside from the fact that playing inDenver takes a home game away from CU fans and students, the anti-CU/Boulder sentiment that pervades across the state of Colorado (particularly in the greater Denver area - if you don't believe me just take a look at the Denver newspapers), playing the game at Invesco is a decided advantage for the Rams, no matter who is wearing the darker uniforms. CU home games should be played on campus.

Posted by william.nicholas on August 22, 2007 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

the bigger question is should we be playing these clowns at all..if given a vote I'd have to believe that season tix holders at CU would opt for almost anyone but the goats..give me a Big-10 school, one from the SEC or even a solid Pac -10 team as an opener..let the rammies play UNC in their play pen..

Posted by dabuffs50 on August 22, 2007 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Not gonna lie... I love Folsom, but the game at Invesco can get intense. It really promotes the rivalry and the players get up for the game even more with that many fans. In 2003, (I think) when it was absolutely pouring, There was lighting flashing right when Derek McCoy scored a long TD, it might have been my favorite game ever.

Posted by dabuffs50 on August 22, 2007 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Besides 62-36 of course.

Posted by jentrain on August 22, 2007 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No contest . . . I was in Boulder for the scrimmage last weekend and couldn't believe it was going to be almost a month b/f we'd be playing a game at Folsom Field. I'm OK w/playing in Denver if it's CSU's home game (if we even have to play them at all and if we do, could we please move it to the last non-conference game of the season instead of opening with these guys almost every year), but I want to play our home games at HOME . . . annd that means in Boulder.

I agree with ozincali that playing the game in Denver doesn't seem to help us gain any points with the anti-CU Denver media so why bother?

Posted by buffalo_flyer on August 22, 2007 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CU and CSU need to commit to opening their seasons at Invesco every year.
There is very little that competes with this game on opening day. Get it back on national TV. Highlight the state.
ESPN is airing East Carolina at Virginia Tech in the same time slot. BORING
The afternoon game on ABC? most likely Nevada at Nebraska. PAINFUL
This game could really dominate opening day and bring some much needed attention to both programs.

Posted by buffalo_flyer on August 22, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Back On Topic - Come ON Buff fans, where are your guts?
Do you all want to curl up and watch CU sell 40,000 tickets to CSU and hope the home field gets us a win? Forget that you little girls. This game at Invesco has been INCREDIBLE! Theres nothing else that comes close on opening day and the whole country is starving to watch some intense football. Let the "Big Boys" schedule their tuneups and let the recruits decide if they want to play Division 1 football starting in September or wait until October when conference play get underway.

Posted by jharko on August 22, 2007 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Denver is a big boost for the series -- plenty of alumni from both schools live downtown and love having one game close to home in front of 70k-plus fans. Plus the tailgating is much, much better at invesco.

Posted by nwbuff32 on August 22, 2007 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OT

My family are Mizzou boosters. Gary had his window back in 2004-2005. With Quinn Snyder bringing down the basketball program in scandal (funny how their program kept things quiet), Mizzou AD doesn't want to risk another fiasco. No matter where Gary goes he will bring baggage with him. So Mizzou doesn't want any of that right now. Would've been a great fit.

Posted by clbuff on August 22, 2007 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Get this game off the schedule!! CU gains absolutely nothing by playing the lambkins. Our non-conference schedule is hard enough without starting against a team that has everything to gain and nothing to lose. What do we get, another televised game? Who cares - our schedule is stacked for the next 6 years with quality opponents that will draw national attention. It is not gutless to schedule a patsie early on to get the kinks out, it is smart.

Posted by buffdaddy on August 22, 2007 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Folsom field is the best football location in the world! The sights and the campus atmosphere make the experience, a game at Invesco is a sterile money making proposition. We need to respect the tradition of college football and keep
the game on the campuses. If CSU has sub-standard facilities then they are more than free to give up the home field advantage, besides this "rivalry" is terrible, the only thing that can happen for the Buffs are negative, we are supposed to beat our little sisters so no one notices when we do, it's time to play real schools from a real conference, the Michigans, the USCs, the Wisconsins!!! Go Buffs!!!!

Posted by hershalsavage on August 22, 2007 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If they want to play the game in Denver fine, just don't call it a "home game" on the schedule and charge season ticket holders for it.
Other "neutral" site games like OU/TX and Fla/Georgia are treated as "optional" purchases for season tix holders.
When CU stops this ridiculous practice of forcing season ticket holders to subsidize this game in Denver, we'll get season tickets again, otherwise good luck with those season ticket sales folks!

Posted by JasperJohns on August 22, 2007 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The only problem I have with the game being played at Mile High is that the city seems far more concerned with minimizing drinking than with seeing to it that people enjoy themselves at the game.

The 2002 game was particularly horrendous... they set up the game to kick off at some ungodly hour (I think it was 9am) in the hopes that students wouldn't come down to tailgate beforehand, but this just made the students drink with a frantic sense of urgency (backfired plan #1). They then only put out 8, EIGHT, port-o-johns outside of the stadium in the hopes that people would go inside the stadium to relieve themselves and would then be rendered unable to go back outside and drink more (unless they wanted to forfeit their ticket). Of course, this just led to armies of students vomiting, peeing, and yes, even pooping all over the parking lot (backfired plan #2). And then there's the fact that most of the students who were tailgating had only gotten 2 or 3 hours of sleep before they headed down to Denver... uggh, it was such a mess. With vomit, urine, poop, spilled beer, and passed out bodies all over the place, it was like tailgating on the Ganges River.

Looks like they might be making those same mistakes this year with the early kickoff, I hope they at least put in a few more portable fixtures before the game, I have no want or need to see 4 more of my friends end up in detox.

Posted by JasperJohns on August 22, 2007 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and just for the record, even as a CU fan and alum, I don't think the Denver media is at all biased against the Buffs, if anything they're biased towards them. Just look at the Denver Post, they run at least 4 or 5 articles on CU for every 1 that they run on CSU. Of course, they are running in the Post so they're worthless articles, but still...

Posted by extrapoint on August 22, 2007 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Glad someone brought up the hypocritcal Denver media. Yea, they have been running neutral articles on a regular basis about CU football. If you think for a second, guys like Mark Pissla and Dave "the weasel" Krieger have any fond feelings for CU you have been reading noting but cornnation.com for a few years. Truth is, these guys are laying in the weeds right now because of another denver jerk, Woody (now we know the source of that name) is being sued for sexual harrasment.
Notice how quiet that has been? kind of a contrast to the shooting off the mouth at the hip they did about CU.
CU, Barnett and all the players should have hired a savage lawyer, sued those pathetic a**holes and taken posssession of the Post.
BTW Barnett will probably have to a sint in something like the same conference Solich the sot is in before he can return to a prominent D1 school.

Posted by jahbrahakala on August 23, 2007 at 1:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Having just driven through Laporte, CO on the western edge of Ft Collins. I would like to actually go play a game up at CSU's home field. Funny that a school doesn't want to play football at their home field. What's up with that. It's pretty nice there. It's not Folsom in Boulder, but it has it's own appeal.

Going to Denver has lost it's appeal for me, especially with the drunk crass CSU kids screaming in your ears from 12 inches away when you go to get a drink or go to the bathroom.

Bring back the Home and Home games. I had a blast in Ft Collins back in 1986. Discovered a great little Mexican restaraunt called "Rio Grande" in a little hole in the wall building. Was very happy when they branched into Boulder the next year. Had it to ourselves for the first year before word got out about the great margs and food.

Anyway, my point is it would be fun to play a game up in Laporte/Ft Fun. What's the problem CSU? You scared you'll lose at home?

Go Buffs!

Posted by william.nicholas on August 23, 2007 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

one more comment..anyone who actually believes playing a college game at Invesco is good fun, thrilling, whatever ...doesn't know a pigskin from a lollipop..horrible environment, cement jungle, swell neighborhood, .. if you like it so much go to Bronco games..there is no place like Folsom..

Posted by f8toblack on August 23, 2007 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't like the game in Denver. I like smashing in way more people than the bleachers can handle and standing on top of them (sometimes until they break). I like the rowdiness that subsides as a result of the crammed atmosphere. At Invesco I feel like I'm at a baseball game. I don't buy this crap that it's good for the team because of national exposure, blah blah blah. College football is what it is. If you want national exposure, win games! Don't try to sugar coat it with a stupid stadium.

Posted by buffalo_flyer on August 23, 2007 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This game hasn't lived up to expectations because the universities refuse to go for gold. They don't want to see another tear gas fiasco which ultimatley resulted from their own machinations.

You're all missing a great opportunity to have something really special on opening day. Its even more ridiculous that the reasoning is you'd rather play the game in a half empty stadium in Boulder because like most Buff fans youre too lazy to get off your duff and drive 30 minutes.

Posted by halluxvalgus on August 24, 2007 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How has no one mentioned recruiting? The game at Invesco, with 50% more people and professional facilities against a hated rival are a great opportunity to bring kids in for a visit. Then drive them up to Boulder and show off the campus. Folsom simply cannot compete with the 90k+ stadiums other schools have.

Oh, and jahbrahakala, there are Rio's in Boulder and Denver as well.

Posted by f8toblack on August 24, 2007 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

halluxvalgus:
I would think the opposite. You want a recruit to see the energy of a home game and the game at Invesco is nothing like a home game. Having more people is meaningless if half of them are rooting for the other team.

Hawkins has also stated that having recruits visiting when playing at Invesco is suboptimal:

From a previous Buffzone article:

[CU can use its full allotment of 61 recruiting visits this year and should have a large number of players in town for the season opener against Colorado State (Sept. 1) and the true home opener against Florida State (Sept. 15).

Hawkins acknowledged there are some drawbacks to bringing prospects in when the CSU game is played at Invesco Field in Denver, but he said they enjoy being able to see that stadium as well.]

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007/...

Posted by halluxvalgus on August 24, 2007 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

kipp: So I guess it's a toss up, at best. I guess I've just become jaded by so many half full Folsom days, and would think that if we're recruiting against a true national power, Folsom energy just can't compete. thanks for the article

Posted by olsdaddy777 on August 24, 2007 at 11:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hahaha!! Buffdaddy wants to play the Michigans, the USC's and the Wisconsins and the Buffs can't even beat a D-2 team from montana. Hilarious. Good luck with that. After CU loses to CSU they are going to get completely humiliated by FSU. I can't believe Dan Hawkins and the CU program wants to play all these good teams. I can't blame you guys for not wanting to play the rammies. It is really getting hard for the folks in Boulder to realize that CSU have a halfway decent program going that beats CU half the time these days.

National exposure is great and everything but is it really great when you are getting completely embarassed. May I remind you that this is a team coming off of a 2-10 season with little to no experience coming back. Its going to be another long year for Colorado's program (As I hear it called all the time) Oh wait the coaches little boy is going to play QB so all is going to be well. HAHAHHAHAHA! hilarious.

Posted by buffalo_flyer on August 27, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We realize that CSU has an excellent coach that should have beat CU way more than his record shows. And we realize that your program has improved over the years.
However, fans like you are the reason why its going to be oh so sweet to be the 2-10 buffs that just dominated the little sister again. Can't wait for Saturday, thats when your laughter will turn to tears

Posted by trubuff on August 28, 2007 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hate going to Invesco, and not just because the Buffs haven't won as many games there as Folsom. Parking is expensive, tailgaiting is frowned upon, taking the bus sucks, the seats are too far from the field, but worst of all are these obnoxious CSU fans who think because they've won a few games in the past 10 years (while CU has been down) they think they have some national powerhouse. Truth is they will always be the red-headed stepchild. They get no respect for a reason, they are in a weak conference whose games can only can be seen in about a million homes (at best). I actually saw a CSU student a couple years ago with a shirt that said "I F@#K your CU mother for tuition money". Now that's class. And I thought the Huskers were bad. I'm sure we have some bad fans out there, but its obvious these students just don't know how to act at what is supposed to be a big time college football game (hopefully it will become one again soon). Bring the game back to the campuses where college football belongs!

Posted by william.nicholas on August 28, 2007 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

trubuff never spoke truer words..although I take one exception in that the worlds' most awful fans are from nebraska, while the buffoons at CSU run a close second..after all, STUPID is their middle name...GO BUFFS !!!

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